Episode 5x12- Dead is Dead

[rugbygrlAlicool]

I think he was truly surprised it hadn't killed him. And I was thinking that before hand as well about it only focused on things dealing w/ Alex, nothing else.

[Sterlinron]

I think Widmoore is in the box.

[Tink]

[Tink]

Soooo, who lived in Ben's house before the Purge? And did they know what was in the back of the closet?

[scuba]

I think Widmoore is in the box.

Wait.....

You might be onto something there....

[scuba]

Maybe the smoke monster didn't whip Ben all around and kill him like he did to Eko because Ben did admit it was his fault that Alex was killed. Eko never really repented about killing - said he had to for Yemi or something. I don't know Tink, I'm struggling with that one too. I was actually looking forward to seeing Ben grabbed by the ankles and used as a machete to chop down trees...

[Tink]

Could still happen . . . <rubs her hands together with a cackle>

The point for me is that not everyone gets the 'judgement' thingy . . . some just get the punishment.

Once again it reminds me of a Star Trek epi

[rugbygrlAlicool]

Ben is BY FAR the most compelling character on the show right now, you can't Monster Pinata him to death

[Tink]

Oh . . . alriiight <pokes a dust bunny with her toe> He's just so creepy!

[rugbygrlAlicool]

beyond creepy - the way his min d works, the complexity of the character. Him and Locke so RULE. Hurley's one liners also rock

[Tink]

Sooooo, Sir Sterl's suggestion about the box keeps interrupting my thoughts!

Wouldn't that be interesting . . . Chuck returns to the island! But my oh my what a way to travel - and that would mean Ilana et al work for Widmore and that Ben would have truly been surprised to see Sayid on the plane We have to then wonder why Widmore wants Sayid on the island . . .

[igli2112]

But if is in the box how come they wont let him out......He doesnt play well with others?????

[rugbygrlAlicool]

ok, something popped in my head during another dream last night - what if the "monster" wasn't so much forgiving Ben, but giving back what was taken from him as a child to be healed???? Can this flag be mine if it's true


I also just noticed that this thread isn't called Dead is Dead, it's named after the previous episode

[Tink]

Igli! I just assumed they lost the key

Rgrl, that Avi is disturbing!

But I like your point about giving back . . . well, sorta . . . are you thinking along the line of memory chips? Or perhaps some level of empathy? I'm sure the nanobots could do that

[rugbygrlAlicool]

the other avvie you can't see well enough that size

not memory, empathy that goes along with innocence perhaps. I could be off base, who knows. I don't think Widmore is in the box......

[Tink]

Empathy may best describe what is missing in Ben . . . although he seems to understand what it is and how to use the empathy in others to get whatever he wants.

I wonder if what he 'lost' as a child is what makes an other an other . . . or if each loses something different . . . naaaah!

I don't think it is Widmore in the box either . . . he's been in there too long . . . but I do think he makes it back to the island. Stowaway on Penny's boat?

But just what could be in the box? The anti smoke monster? A homing devise for Widmore to follow? Lunch?

[rugbygrlAlicool]

lunch - most def lunch I"m gonna post this just so my avvie freaks ya out

[Tink]

<shivers>

I wonder if Ilana et al are the tech peeps called in to repair the computer . . .

[McLost]

[LostMommyOf3]

Reading Tink's post here...that skeptical eye did you well. It sure didn't add up. Essau/ Smoke was working Ben...working the plan! The loophole.

[LostMommyOf3]

Ya know . . . when you think of it . . . the Smoke judgement of Ben wasn't much really . . . he's been so awful and twisted - could argue that he's more evil than Eko . . . but Ben seems to have got off pretty easy - he seemed to be forgiven by ?? for Alex' death but what of all the rest?

Something just isn't adding up

Tink, you are so perceptive! I re-watched this last night. Knowing what we know now, everything is so very different. Locke is clearly not Locke. He is MIB, black smoke...

Ben goes to summon the monster and not-Locke waits outside for him. Ben pulls the drain and says he'll be outside. He waits, hears rustling in the jungle and out walks not-Locke. Can the black smoke not resist a summons and thus manipulated the circumstance to protect his identity? Not-Locke then says that if the monster won't come to them, they will go to it. Ben is shocked and not-Locke leads them to the temple and says they're going under. Sun of course stays above. They walk in and Ben falls down into the black smoke cavern. not-Locke yells that he's going to go get something to help Ben out. He walks away. Then down in the cavern, Black Smoke comes through the vent, swirls around Ben, goes away and comes back as Alex. (this is just as it behaved with Eko). Alex is clearly not Alex, just as Locke is not Locke. So Alex/ Black smoke executes the next step in this very long con on Ben and tells him to do everything "Locke" says or it will hunt him down. "Alex" walks away and the next moment not-Locke is back at the hole with a vine to help Ben out. Well done!!!

I wonder when MIB chose Locke for this very long con. Is it possible that only because of time looping back on itself, an event that started at some point in time (the incident), MIB decided to use that to his advantage to get someone else to kill Jacob? Does that make sense? The loop continues and has not been broken but there are some who are aware of the loop; Hawking, Widmore for sure and to a lesser degree, Locke, Jack, Kate, Sawyer and others. Those who are most aware are trying to prevent the loop from repeating itself. What I cannot figure is if the loop plays into what is going on between Jacob and MIB. Their "game".

[Shakespearehead]

MIB? I am soooo not ready for S6.

Why can't not-Locke guy kill Jacob but Ben can?

It's kind of like how Locke couldn't kill his own father so he got Sawyer to do it for him.

[LostMommyOf3]

It seems that there is some rule that Man in Black (MIB) cannot kill Jacob himself, he had to find a loophole.

[Mondeskind]

Very clever, Elmo!!